Please take a look at these two photos, and let me know
if you know what make/model these airplanes are:

http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof1.jpg
http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof2.jpg

These two aircraft look to be identical. The photos were
taken during a driving rain on July 2 at a building across
the highway from the Fantasy Of Flight air museum in Polk
City, Florida. FOF is located about halfway between Orlando
and Tampa Bay on I-4. I think that the fuselages are upside
down, but I am not even sure of that. They appear to be
patrol bombers, or maybe large flying boats, but in looking
though books and photos that I have, they don't seem to match
anything that I am familiar with. The only thing that looks
close would be B-24 with a custom greenhouse nose.

Any ideas?

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 09:35:12 -0500, "John A. Weeks III"
> wrote:

>Please take a look at these two photos, and let me know
>if you know what make/model these airplanes are:
>
> http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof1.jpg
> http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof2.jpg
>
>These two aircraft look to be identical. The photos were
>taken during a driving rain on July 2 at a building across
>the highway from the Fantasy Of Flight air museum in Polk
>City, Florida. FOF is located about halfway between Orlando
>and Tampa Bay on I-4. I think that the fuselages are upside
>down, but I am not even sure of that. They appear to be
>patrol bombers, or maybe large flying boats, but in looking
>though books and photos that I have, they don't seem to match
>anything that I am familiar with. The only thing that looks
>close would be B-24 with a custom greenhouse nose.
>
>Any ideas?
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PB4Y_Privateer

A Maritime patrol version of the B-24.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Ed Rasimus > wrote:

>On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 09:35:12 -0500, "John A. Weeks III"
> wrote:
>
>>Please take a look at these two photos, and let me know
>>if you know what make/model these airplanes are:
>>
>> http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof1.jpg
>> http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof2.jpg
>>
>>These two aircraft look to be identical. The photos were
>>taken during a driving rain on July 2 at a building across
>>the highway from the Fantasy Of Flight air museum in Polk
>>City, Florida. FOF is located about halfway between Orlando
>>and Tampa Bay on I-4. I think that the fuselages are upside
>>down, but I am not even sure of that. They appear to be
>>patrol bombers, or maybe large flying boats, but in looking
>>though books and photos that I have, they don't seem to match
>>anything that I am familiar with. The only thing that looks
>>close would be B-24 with a custom greenhouse nose.
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PB4Y_Privateer
>
>A Maritime patrol version of the B-24.
>
Doesn't much look like a Privateer - even the cargo conversions. It
looks more like a Liberator but the panels are wrong. The Liberator
(as did the Privateer) had a pronounced sloping down from the
cockpit to the second "hoop" of the nose-glazing with the panels being
shaped to fit. The panels in the photo are all square. Not many
slab-sided aircraft though.

Eugene L Griessel

If psychics are for real..why don't they call us?

In article >,
"John A. Weeks III" > wrote:

They are not B-24 or PB4Y-2s. My bet would be on a Shorts
Sunderland...Kermit has one that he flew into Fantasy of Flight.

Dale > wrote:

>In article >,
> "John A. Weeks III" > wrote:
>
>They are not B-24 or PB4Y-2s. My bet would be on a Shorts
>Sunderland...Kermit has one that he flew into Fantasy of Flight.

Definitely not a Sunderland - or any of the Empire series of boats
either. Although that was my first guess after B-24. Nor a Kawanishi
Emily either. Very intriguing - the fuselages do appear to have
suffered considerable modifications.

Eugene L Griessel

To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven.
The same key opens the gates of hell. - Siddhartha Gautama

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:42:30 GMT, (Eugene Griessel)
wrote:

> Ed Rasimus > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 09:35:12 -0500, "John A. Weeks III"
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Please take a look at these two photos, and let me know
> >>if you know what make/model these airplanes are:
> >>
> >> http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof1.jpg
> >> http://www.johnweeks.com/tmp/fof2.jpg
> >>
> >>Any ideas?
> >>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PB4Y_Privateer
> >
> >A Maritime patrol version of the B-24.
> >
> Doesn't much look like a Privateer - even the cargo conversions. It
> looks more like a Liberator but the panels are wrong. The Liberator
> (as did the Privateer) had a pronounced sloping down from the
> cockpit to the second "hoop" of the nose-glazing with the panels being
> shaped to fit. The panels in the photo are all square. Not many
> slab-sided aircraft though.

Several of the WWII British bombers are somewhat slab-sided. John's photos
don't match a Lancaster, but what about a Halifax?

Ron Wanttaja

They are upsidedown when you turn the pics over def B24s.

Dave


"Eugene Griessel" > wrote in message
...
> Dale > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> "John A. Weeks III" > wrote:
>>
>>They are not B-24 or PB4Y-2s. My bet would be on a Shorts
>>Sunderland...Kermit has one that he flew into Fantasy of Flight.
>
> Definitely not a Sunderland - or any of the Empire series of boats
> either. Although that was my first guess after B-24. Nor a Kawanishi
> Emily either. Very intriguing - the fuselages do appear to have
> suffered considerable modifications.
>
> Eugene L Griessel
>
> To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven.
> The same key opens the gates of hell. - Siddhartha Gautama

"Dave Deep" > wrote:

>They are upsidedown when you turn the pics over def B24s.

By jove, I think you've got it! Yes, I agree.

Eugene L Griessel

Teamwork is essential. It allows you to blame somebody else.

Eugene Griessel wrote:
> "Dave Deep" > wrote:
>
> >They are upsidedown when you turn the pics over def B24s.
>
> By jove, I think you've got it! Yes, I agree.
>
> Eugene L Griessel
>
> Teamwork is essential. It allows you to blame somebody else.

I don't think he has it. I say Airship gondolas, why else would there
be a rail around it ? Flip them over and picture a gasbag on top of it

In article >,
"Dave Deep" > wrote:

> They are upsidedown when you turn the pics over def B24s.
>
> Dave
>

I really don't think so. The nose is shaped wrong to be a B-24. Also,
along the side you can see two areas (one high, one low) that look to be
attach points for a wing/strut/something...that doesn't fit for the
Liberator either. If they are B-24s they are D models and the D had
glazing over the top of the nose...these are metal. Framing in the nose
area is also incorrect for a B-24.

All right, someone in Florida drive over there and find out what these
are!! <G>

"Dave Deep" > wrote in message
...
> They are upsidedown when you turn the pics over def B24s.

I agree, but which model? There is an unusual arrangement of blisters and
windows, and the framing for the glazing of the foremost position is upswept
unlike any with which I am familiar.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Eugene Griessel wrote:
> > "Dave Deep" > wrote:
> >
> > >They are upsidedown when you turn the pics over def B24s.
> >
> > By jove, I think you've got it! Yes, I agree.
> >
> > Eugene L Griessel
> >
> > Teamwork is essential. It allows you to blame somebody else.
>
> I don't think he has it. I say Airship gondolas, why else would there
> be a rail around it ? Flip them over and picture a gasbag on top of it

I think you're onto something. I took the railing to be some sort of antenna.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I don't think he has it. I say Airship gondolas, why else would there
> be a rail around it ? Flip them over and picture a gasbag on top of it
>

I think you're on to something with that. Take a look at this image:

http://www.bluejacket.com/usn/images/ac/usn_blimp_zpg.jpg

Airship Gondolas - probably from the Goodyear XZP5K / XS2G-1 series (19
built - First Flight 1954)

Stats:

Length 285 ft.
Gas Volume: 650,000 cu ft.
Crew: 8
Max Speed: 85 MPH +
Power: Two Wright 1300-4 Cyclone 7's 800 Hp Each


Source: United States Navy Aircraft since 1911;
Gordon Swanborough & Peter Bowers
Naval Institute Press 1990 edition

Jack G.

" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Eugene Griessel wrote:
>> "Dave Deep" > wrote:
>>
>> >They are upsidedown when you turn the pics over def B24s.
>>
>> By jove, I think you've got it! Yes, I agree.
>>
>> Eugene L Griessel
>>
>> Teamwork is essential. It allows you to blame somebody else.
>
> I don't think he has it. I say Airship gondolas, why else would there
> be a rail around it ? Flip them over and picture a gasbag on top of it
>

Good Find! I think you have nailed it.

(Another correction is that the item is a "car" rather than "gondola").

Jack G.



"Vanwall" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I think they might be from K-series Blimps. Take a look here:
>
> http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=1
>
> http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=3
>

In article <Gzfsg.3069$pB.1825@trnddc06>,
"Jack G" > wrote:

> Good Find! I think you have nailed it.
>
> (Another correction is that the item is a "car" rather than "gondola").
>
> Jack G.
>
>
>
> "Vanwall" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >I think they might be from K-series Blimps. Take a look here:
> >
> > http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=1
> >
> > http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=3
> >

Here's another image that supports the car / gondola theory:

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2006/1/2006_1_12.sht
ml
(scroll down to the second picture)

--
NJE

In article <Gzfsg.3069$pB.1825@trnddc06>,
"Jack G" > wrote:

> Good Find! I think you have nailed it.
> (Another correction is that the item is a "car" rather than "gondola").

I concur. Thanks everyone for all the great ideas & links.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

Eugene Griessel wrote:

> Dale > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> "John A. Weeks III" > wrote:
>>
>>They are not B-24 or PB4Y-2s. My bet would be on a Shorts
>>Sunderland...Kermit has one that he flew into Fantasy of Flight.
>
> Definitely not a Sunderland - or any of the Empire series of boats
> either. Although that was my first guess after B-24. Nor a Kawanishi
> Emily either. Very intriguing - the fuselages do appear to have
> suffered considerable modifications.

My first thought was that it was a pair of P4Y-2 noses - the USCG had some
modified with a rather blunt greenhouse up front, instead of the Erco
turret.
But that didn't quite fit.
Then I pondered a bit more - those airfoil shaped areas near the top aren't
for antenna fairings - there's too much structure there.
But those openings aren't enough for wings.
I think what we've got here is a pair of Blimp Gondola foward sections -
either K-ship (ZPK) or N-Ship (ZPG) - they both had similar shapes, but
different sizes - the N ships had 2 story gondolas.

--
Pete Stickney
Without data, all you have is an opinion

" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> NJE wrote:
> > In article <Gzfsg.3069$pB.1825@trnddc06>,
> > "Jack G" > wrote:
> >
> > > Good Find! I think you have nailed it.
> > >
> > > (Another correction is that the item is a "car" rather than "gondola").
> > >
> > > Jack G.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Vanwall" > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > > >I think they might be from K-series Blimps. Take a look here:
> > > >
> > > >
http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=1
> > > >
> > > >
http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=3
> > > >
> >
> > Here's another image that supports the car / gondola theory:
> >
> > http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2006/1/2006_1_12.sht
> > ml
> > (scroll down to the second picture)
> >
> > --
> > NJ
>
> OK, I nailed it, what is the prize ?

A virtual hero cookie. :^)
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)